The important key is not so much whether the head moves or not (its gonna move a little no matter who you are) but that your head stays behind the ball.
So smart. I agree. You “can” violate almost any fundamental if you’re talented enough, but some fundamentals add stability to your game for decades and make it easier to find the ball with the clubhead in more or less the same way most of the time.
Incidentally, I don’t think it’s any coincidence that as Tiger has quieted his head movement (a little) over the years, his consistency has improved. Faldo’s another one who is just dead-quiet from the start of the downswing through impact.
Interesting dialog on lateral movement. It reminds me of Curtis Strange in his prime and how much his head moved laterally. He won back-to-back US Opens in a time when nobody was doing that, and it tells you how good his timing was. Incidentally, I saw Strange last year at a Champions event, and his head is now almost perfectly still – no lateral movement. It would be almost impossible to maintain that level of timing in your 50′s in my opinion.
You notice how teachers have backed away from the “let your head move” digression of the ’80s-’90s? Tiger has been improving as his head has gotten steadier, and you don’t really see people moving hugely off the ball and then trying to time that lateral slide back through the ball anymore. Turns out keeping your head pretty much in one places actually works, along with making a wide arc, coiling the upper half and releasing from the ground up…amazing, that those old guys knew anything.
…. let it rip from there. I think Nicklaus loaded the shaft as well as anyone ever did. he used a softer shaft in his driver, but that move into his left side let him lag it w/ out getting laid off and stuck like a Sergio or, as we know, Tiger. Hogan and Nicklaus had the luxury of being able to hit the ball as hard as they coudl w/ out the fear of hooking the ball. Must be nice. This particular shot is testament to that point. His approach into 15 half an hour later was even better.
Wow. Some good swing conversation here. Sorry i missed it. Yeah, Nicklaus probably had the most dynamic swing of all time. His teacher taught him at an early age to keep his head that ‘quiet’. Jack described (as you guys point out) his cervical spine as ‘ the hub of a wheel’ which every thing rotated around. Jack was quiet, but definitely not ‘stack-n-tilt’. His left heel ball position eliminated the need for any lateral movement off the ball to get behind it, so it was just coil and …
…But, he said, it all needs to be very “quiet,” or it destroys the swinging motion, just like if you’re swinging a pendant around with your hand, you tend to keep your hand in one place relative to the arc. If you move it suddenly from one spot to another, the arc gets disrupted and out of control, and the pendant will bounce around.
Right–what people are usually seeing is the movement of the face, chin, whatever, but not a big lateral movement from the cervical portion of the spine. You probably know that Nicklaus later said that he agreed you couldn’t–and probably shouldn’t–have an absolutely stock-still head, the swivel being one example of permissible movement, and the tendency to move slightly back and down on the downswing (prob. counterbalancing) being another…
The fact is, both Hogan and Nicklaus got their upper bodies behind the ball at the top and were behind it when they hit it. A true reverse-pivoter tend to lift the club, and what little turn he has usually leaves his front shoulder at or in front of the ball. Even Tiger is keeping his head MUCH more still these days, esp. laterally. It’s pretty damn hard to have a true swinging motion at all if your head is moving around; the “swing” becomes more of a lunge or a shove.
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you don’t have to see where that ball when it was stuck in the screws…. what a sound i love that sound.
WOAH! Did you hear the sounds that made!?
Nicklaus was the greatest.
WHY do you only show tee shots with no results as to where the ball ends up?
@addamsmith Jack Nicklaus 14th hole approach is called pure buddy
@addamsmith hit behind it barely!!!
such a crisp shot…sounded like a bullwhip
Same here. What a striker of the ball!
The important key is not so much whether the head moves or not (its gonna move a little no matter who you are) but that your head stays behind the ball.
Very true, although Hogan fought a ferocious hook early in his career but thats the way those Texas players learned to play back then.
So smart. I agree. You “can” violate almost any fundamental if you’re talented enough, but some fundamentals add stability to your game for decades and make it easier to find the ball with the clubhead in more or less the same way most of the time.
Incidentally, I don’t think it’s any coincidence that as Tiger has quieted his head movement (a little) over the years, his consistency has improved. Faldo’s another one who is just dead-quiet from the start of the downswing through impact.
Interesting dialog on lateral movement. It reminds me of Curtis Strange in his prime and how much his head moved laterally. He won back-to-back US Opens in a time when nobody was doing that, and it tells you how good his timing was. Incidentally, I saw Strange last year at a Champions event, and his head is now almost perfectly still – no lateral movement. It would be almost impossible to maintain that level of timing in your 50′s in my opinion.
It might be sick to keep coming back here just to hear it again, but I do it anyway.
sucha nice noise, i could listen to that all day
Watch his head in relation to the bushes behind him. His head remains almost stationary throughout the swing.
EH **** ALL OF YOU GUYS. DuMB PIECES OF ****. EMPTY SKULLs.
Yup. Had a pretty passable career doing it, too.
jack always worked on keeping his head dead centre and rotating around it.
You notice how teachers have backed away from the “let your head move” digression of the ’80s-’90s? Tiger has been improving as his head has gotten steadier, and you don’t really see people moving hugely off the ball and then trying to time that lateral slide back through the ball anymore. Turns out keeping your head pretty much in one places actually works, along with making a wide arc, coiling the upper half and releasing from the ground up…amazing, that those old guys knew anything.
…. let it rip from there. I think Nicklaus loaded the shaft as well as anyone ever did. he used a softer shaft in his driver, but that move into his left side let him lag it w/ out getting laid off and stuck like a Sergio or, as we know, Tiger. Hogan and Nicklaus had the luxury of being able to hit the ball as hard as they coudl w/ out the fear of hooking the ball. Must be nice. This particular shot is testament to that point. His approach into 15 half an hour later was even better.
Wow. Some good swing conversation here. Sorry i missed it. Yeah, Nicklaus probably had the most dynamic swing of all time. His teacher taught him at an early age to keep his head that ‘quiet’. Jack described (as you guys point out) his cervical spine as ‘ the hub of a wheel’ which every thing rotated around. Jack was quiet, but definitely not ‘stack-n-tilt’. His left heel ball position eliminated the need for any lateral movement off the ball to get behind it, so it was just coil and …
Boy, and echoing off the pines, too…mmmm. Tasty.
…But, he said, it all needs to be very “quiet,” or it destroys the swinging motion, just like if you’re swinging a pendant around with your hand, you tend to keep your hand in one place relative to the arc. If you move it suddenly from one spot to another, the arc gets disrupted and out of control, and the pendant will bounce around.
Right–what people are usually seeing is the movement of the face, chin, whatever, but not a big lateral movement from the cervical portion of the spine. You probably know that Nicklaus later said that he agreed you couldn’t–and probably shouldn’t–have an absolutely stock-still head, the swivel being one example of permissible movement, and the tendency to move slightly back and down on the downswing (prob. counterbalancing) being another…
The fact is, both Hogan and Nicklaus got their upper bodies behind the ball at the top and were behind it when they hit it. A true reverse-pivoter tend to lift the club, and what little turn he has usually leaves his front shoulder at or in front of the ball. Even Tiger is keeping his head MUCH more still these days, esp. laterally. It’s pretty damn hard to have a true swinging motion at all if your head is moving around; the “swing” becomes more of a lunge or a shove.